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[personal profile] autographedcat
"I have been part of this debate for years, but things do get settled and this issue is now settled for me. I do not debate any longer with members of the "Flat Earth Society" either. I do not debate with people who think we should treat epilepsy by casting demons out of the epileptic person; I do not waste time engaging those medical opinions that suggest that bleeding the patient might release the infection. I do not converse with people who think that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans as punishment for the sin of being the birthplace of Ellen DeGeneres or that the terrorists hit the United Sates on 9/11 because we tolerated homosexual people, abortions, feminism or the American Civil Liberties Union. I am tired of being embarrassed by so much of my church's participation in causes that are quite unworthy of the Christ I serve or the God whose mystery and wonder I appreciate more each day.

Indeed I feel the Christian Church should not only apologize, but do public penance for the way we have treated people of color, women, adherents of other religions and those we designated heretics, as well as gay and lesbian people. Life moves on.

As the poet James Russell Lowell once put it more than a century ago: "New occasions teach new duties, Time makes ancient good uncouth." I am ready now to claim the victory. I will from now on assume it and live into it.

I am unwilling to argue about it or to discuss it as if there are two equally valid, competing positions any longer. The day for that mentality has simply gone forever. This is my manifesto and my creed. I proclaim it today. I invite others to join me in this public declaration. I believe that such a public outpouring will help cleanse both the church and this nation of its own distorting past. It will restore integrity and honor to both church and state. It will signal that a new day has dawned and we are ready not just to embrace it, but also to rejoice in it and to celebrate it,"

--Bishop John Shelby Spong

(much thanks to Andrew Sullivan for the pointer)

Date: 2010-10-28 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smoooom.livejournal.com
Oh, how pathetic and sad. I was thinking it might be cool to meet one some day share a laugh. But Now I hope I never meet one. I'm not sure I could keep a straight face. Thank you for setting me straight. I think.

Date: 2010-10-28 03:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] keristor.livejournal.com
OK, playing devil's advocate, how would you prove to me that the world is round? Remember, I have scientific evidence on my side, from experiments anyone can do (not just scientists with large research grants), that indicate that it's flat, and that I'm not going to accept any "arguments from authority" (i.e. just because a famous person says or writes it doesn't make it true). And how will it make any difference to me in my daily life (or after I die, for that matter)?

The same with people going to the moon. How will you convince me that it wasn't just Hollywood special effects in a film, with actors paid to back them up? Remember, I've seen Close Encounters, and the X-Files, and other SF movies, and you'll also have to convince me that they were still fake (or I might end up believing everything I see on TV or the movies, and you wouldn't want that).

(To reassure you, I do actually believe that the world is round and that people went to the moon, and that Star Trek is fiction (although I'm less convinced about Middle-Earth being fiction). But that's my personal belief, and as arbitrary as my belief that there is life after death.)

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